The Zombie Hunters Forum: WE GO THERE.
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 71 
 on: August 31, 2014, 02:28:30 pm 
Started by Yutrzenika - Last post by Tanaj
They're not gamebreaking, but they are annoying, take some getting used to, and probably could have been done better. Though I kinda rebound my keys to standard WASD, with shift to control speed, and Control to crouch, and that seems to be working fine. It seems having S set to be that slow walk isn't totally necessary.
To each his own. Keys are indeed rebindable.

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I'm Canadian.
Yeah, I know. Tongue
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Controllers are better for character movement, not aiming. With WASD, you only get 8 directions, and depending on the game, one or two speeds for your character to move in, with control sticks you get a lot more freedom of movement and speed over your character compared to a keyboard.
Depends on the game. And personal preference I guess.
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God forbid people want to have fun.
Look, if you're playing chess with me and when you're about to lose a piece you throw the whole thing to the ground and demand we start over. You may be having fun because you'll never lose, but that's not what chess is about. What I'm saying is I hate casualisation of games that used to require skill. So what if you're caught? You're a thief and if you get caught you're generally screwed (tbh even in Thief you aren't THAT screwed, unless you really fuck up). Reload a save and try again. But if you can whip out some bullshit slo-mo ninja stuff to get out of any trouble, then where's the challenge? I like to sometimes play on easy sometimes, maybe set a game up so that I can't lose. Winning IS fun, but I get more fun out of overcoming challenges by myself, not because the game did that for me.



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To be fair, they did stick in options to disable all of the handholding slowmo stuff that makes Ground Zeroes/Phantom Pain easier.
They did, but my point still stands.
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In my experience with Thief so far, it's the same way, I've not been spotted when peeking around well lit corners.
Weird, I remember guards being able to spot you like that.

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The only modern stealth game I can think of that has that is Splinter Cell Blacklist.
Off that top of my head: the new Hitman and Thi4f (it has bullshit pressure point karate, but the principle is the same). Dishonored also has easy-mode teleporting drop-kills.

 72 
 on: August 31, 2014, 12:46:25 pm 
Started by Yutrzenika - Last post by Yutrzenika
*Stuff*

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The controls are fine if you're not a console peasant that can't comprehend more than 6 buttons. Sure, the speed system in SC was awesome, but it doesn't make or break the game. Thief was built around its control system and it works.
They're not gamebreaking, but they are annoying, take some getting used to, and probably could have been done better. Though I kinda rebound my keys to standard WASD, with shift to control speed, and Control to crouch, and that seems to be working fine. It seems having S set to be that slow walk isn't totally necessary.

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Maybe if you complained about the inventory system, then I could agree with you.
It's sort of the same inventory system as Duke Nukem 3D/Doom Source Ports, so I guess I'm used to it.

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(I guess that's why you Americans have "Food is hot" warning labels)
I'm Canadian.

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Also: "controllers are more precise". Buehehehehe.
Controllers are better for character movement, not aiming. With WASD, you only get 8 directions, and depending on the game, one or two speeds for your character to move in, with control sticks you get a lot more freedom of movement and speed over your character compared to a keyboard.

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Nowadays, retard gamers can't lose in a game, because they want to have "fun".
God forbid people want to have fun.

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That's why the new Metal Gear has slo-mo when somebody spots you.
To be fair, they did stick in options to disable all of the handholding slowmo stuff that makes Ground Zeroes/Phantom Pain easier.

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Dishonored also has the lean system where you're invisible no matter what.
In my experience with Thief so far, it's the same way, I've not been spotted when peeking around well lit corners.

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In modern stealth games you have a "Press x to do an awesome animation killing all your opponents".
The only modern stealth game I can think of that has that is Splinter Cell Blacklist.

 73 
 on: August 31, 2014, 08:25:25 am 
Started by Log! - Last post by Cheez
*Nods* Yeah, same.

PP: ^ That.

 74 
 on: August 31, 2014, 08:19:53 am 
Started by Grammer - Last post by Cheez
AP: I found a bunch of cupasoups at the back of a cupboard that I had totally forgotten existed. And they're the proper brand ones, not the cheapo store own brand stuff I normally get.

AP2: New housemate speaks German. I can get her to translate the instructions of the German dumplings I've had and not known what to do with for 4 years or so.

 75 
 on: August 31, 2014, 08:13:23 am 
Started by Yutrzenika - Last post by Cheez
Been playing Skyrim recently, though I got The Walking Dead Season 2 recently on sale*- will probably start playing it sometime in the next day or so.

*I know I have no money right now, but 7.59 instead of 18.99 for a game I will be buying eventually anyway? I couldn't say no, especially as the housemate who owes me a lot of money just got a job.

 76 
 on: August 31, 2014, 08:05:43 am 
Started by Boomstick - Last post by Cheez
Jasper: "Um... why do you have a concealed illegal firearm?"
Mau: "Why don't you?"

 77 
 on: August 31, 2014, 05:05:14 am 
Started by Yutrzenika - Last post by Tanaj
"Aged extremely well"
The controls sure as hell haven't. I understand they're working with the limitations that come with character movement on the keyboard, and that using controllers on PC wasn't really a thing back then (since the freedom of movement offered by thumbsticks works better than keys), but they really didn't need to shoehorn an extra movement speed and key binding in there. Splinter Cell did a much better job of it, using the scroll wheel to allow you to adjust your character movement almost seamlessly, and I know scroll wheels existed at the time.
They may has well have made being spotted an instant game over too, because the combat is so flawed, I know it's not a game about combat, but sometimes you just can't help being spotted. They teach you all this sword combat in the training, and then when you actually get into the game it amounts to mashing left click on a guy for like 30 seconds before he drops dead, it takes forever to kill a single guy. The enemies can outrun you too, since your fastest movement speed is a fast walk, so hiding is basically a no go. I understand that being caught is supposed to be a punishing and difficult thing, but in thief it feels like artificial difficulty, it's not a hearty challenge when you get caught, it's just flat out unfair. When I get caught I just revert to last save, because trying to escape or kill the guy is too much of a pain in the ass to bother.
The guards can spot you stupidly fast as well, and seem to have superhuman hearing, being able to hear me floors below them, or through walls, or whatever, and have instantly spotted me from a distance.
The controls are fine if you're not a console peasant that can't comprehend more than 6 buttons. Sure, the speed system in SC was awesome, but it doesn't make or break the game. Thief was built around its control system and it works. Maybe if you complained about the inventory system, then I could agree with you. Your problem with Thief is the same problem test audiences had. These people didn't like a game that was a challenge. Nowadays, retard gamers can't lose in a game, because they want to have "fun". That's why you have "Press x to kill these 5 dudes" in new SC games. That's why the new Metal Gear has slo-mo when somebody spots you. Thief is a stealth game. You're a thief and the point of that is that you can't go in guns blazing (although if you're good you can circle-strafe everyone to death). Complaining about that is like complaining that you drank hot water and burned you throat (I guess that's why you Americans have "Food is hot" warning labels)

Also: "controllers are more precise". Buehehehehe.


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"Zipping from cover to cover"
What does that even mean in this case? You take cover in Thief as well. Hiding behind something, like the corner of a wall, is cover. It doesn't make much of a difference if newer games have cover systems, because they both serve basically the same purpose, and you're still doing the same thing. Most first person games (like Dishonored), don't have cover systems either.
What I'm saying is modern stealth has two states: either you're invisible, or eveyone knows where you are. Modern SC games have a cover system that lets you silently swoop between cover (so does the new Thi4f). Dishonored also has the lean system where you're invisible no matter what. It's easy mode for console babbies.

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"cinematic takedowns"
Again, like cover, this doesn't make a difference. Sneaking up behind a guy in like... Splinter Cell or whatever, and getting a really quick little animation of Sam choking the guy out isn't any different from walking up behind a guy in Thief with the club and clonking him on the back of the head.
Neither of those are cinematic takedowns. In modern stealth games you have a "Press x to do an awesome animation killing all your opponents". Sneaking up on a guy and grabbing him/bopping on the head in Thief or old SC requires patience and actual input.

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You should play Mark of the Ninja. Easily puts all other modern stealth games to shame.
Because modern stealth games are shit. Also has nothing to do with Thief

EDIT #1
Ah, you edited your post in the meantime. I'll agree with you on the zombies. It's one of the reasons that it's Thief 2 that is the perfect stealth game (not "action-stealth") and not Thief 1.

 78 
 on: August 31, 2014, 01:09:26 am 
Started by Boomstick - Last post by DoctorVeR
I'll take a wild guess and say as an infected, she's not suppose to carry a gun when whenever.  Jasper can cite her later



.... maybe

 79 
 on: August 31, 2014, 12:05:43 am 
Started by Yutrzenika - Last post by Yutrzenika
You're casual for complaining about a game that's aged extremely well. Thief's not without its faults, but the atmosphere and stealth mechanics are unsurpassed to this day. You sound like you're too used to zipping from cover to cover using cinematic takedowns.
So what are you, MLG Pro Hardcore with your call of duties? If it makes you feel any better, I have been playing it more, and it has been growing on me. Now that I've kinda got a feel for the movement and how the guards react to certain speeds it doesn't feel quite as slow paced, since I better understand how things work. But I don't think it's totally flawless. Better than a lot of modern stealth action games? Sure, I'll give you that, most modern stealth games are too easy, I love Splinter Cell Blacklist, but it's very easy to run through capping guys in the head. Sniper Elite 3, and Mark of the Ninja are very good examples of well done stealth action games, in my opinion.
Anyways, the issues I have are that the movement controls are a bit awkward, since it uses WASD and X, they tried to cram a lot of various movement speeds in there. It's not terrible or anything, but it's awkward, and takes getting used to, it could have been simplified a bit I think. One of the bigger gripes I have is that the guards can be pretty unpredictable about when they can and can't spot you as well. I've had them bumping right into me and not spot me, and then I've had them spot me immediately from a distance.
I still think that the game is too punishing when you get spotted, I understand it's a game about thievery and stealth, and that being caught should be a punishing experience, but it really just feels unfair, rather than giving you a hearty challenge to overcome. Your primary means of self defense basically amounts to you mashing left click on the guard until they fall over, which wouldn't be a bad thing if they didn't take forever to die, by the time you've killed a single guy, you probably have other guards on your ass. Your other option is to run and hide, but it feels like the guards can outrun you. I just end up reverting to last save since trying to hide or trying to defend yourself or evade the guards feels pretty much hopeless.
The last issue I have is more of a nitpick, but it kinda bugged me, in a couple levels you encounter zombies, and weird underground monster things, which really threw me off, because they act totally different from the guards I had grown used to. Neither of them were really difficult to overcome, zombies are slow as shit, and the monsters die easy, but it's kinda tedious, and throws off the games pacing.

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You sound like you're too used to zipping from cover to cover using cinematic takedowns.
I don't really see what this has to do with anything. You still go into cover in Thief, to peek around covers, from behind things, etc. The only difference is you're not hitting a button to hug a wall like in Splinter Cell or what have you, but they both serve the exact same purpose. I get into cover in Thief to safely peek around corners, and I do the same thing in games with cover systems.

As for cinematic takedowns, again, I don't really see much of a difference in holding left click and clonking a guy on the back of the head in Thief to knock him out, or going up behind a guy in Dishonored and briefly holding the mouse button down to get a quick animation of me choking him out. It has the same desired effect, just one has a little more flair.


 80 
 on: August 30, 2014, 10:23:50 pm 
Started by Yutrzenika - Last post by Tanaj
I'm casual for not enjoying a game that hasn't aged well? Okay. At least I'm giving the game another chance.
You're casual for complaining about a game that's aged extremely well. Thief's not without its faults, but the atmosphere and stealth mechanics are unsurpassed to this day. You sound like you're too used to zipping from cover to cover using cinematic takedowns.

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