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Author Topic: What are you playing? Episode 2: Sequel Reloaded!  (Read 2216778 times)
Tanaj
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« Reply #8400 on: August 31, 2014, 05:05:14 am »

"Aged extremely well"
The controls sure as hell haven't. I understand they're working with the limitations that come with character movement on the keyboard, and that using controllers on PC wasn't really a thing back then (since the freedom of movement offered by thumbsticks works better than keys), but they really didn't need to shoehorn an extra movement speed and key binding in there. Splinter Cell did a much better job of it, using the scroll wheel to allow you to adjust your character movement almost seamlessly, and I know scroll wheels existed at the time.
They may has well have made being spotted an instant game over too, because the combat is so flawed, I know it's not a game about combat, but sometimes you just can't help being spotted. They teach you all this sword combat in the training, and then when you actually get into the game it amounts to mashing left click on a guy for like 30 seconds before he drops dead, it takes forever to kill a single guy. The enemies can outrun you too, since your fastest movement speed is a fast walk, so hiding is basically a no go. I understand that being caught is supposed to be a punishing and difficult thing, but in thief it feels like artificial difficulty, it's not a hearty challenge when you get caught, it's just flat out unfair. When I get caught I just revert to last save, because trying to escape or kill the guy is too much of a pain in the ass to bother.
The guards can spot you stupidly fast as well, and seem to have superhuman hearing, being able to hear me floors below them, or through walls, or whatever, and have instantly spotted me from a distance.
The controls are fine if you're not a console peasant that can't comprehend more than 6 buttons. Sure, the speed system in SC was awesome, but it doesn't make or break the game. Thief was built around its control system and it works. Maybe if you complained about the inventory system, then I could agree with you. Your problem with Thief is the same problem test audiences had. These people didn't like a game that was a challenge. Nowadays, retard gamers can't lose in a game, because they want to have "fun". That's why you have "Press x to kill these 5 dudes" in new SC games. That's why the new Metal Gear has slo-mo when somebody spots you. Thief is a stealth game. You're a thief and the point of that is that you can't go in guns blazing (although if you're good you can circle-strafe everyone to death). Complaining about that is like complaining that you drank hot water and burned you throat (I guess that's why you Americans have "Food is hot" warning labels)

Also: "controllers are more precise". Buehehehehe.


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"Zipping from cover to cover"
What does that even mean in this case? You take cover in Thief as well. Hiding behind something, like the corner of a wall, is cover. It doesn't make much of a difference if newer games have cover systems, because they both serve basically the same purpose, and you're still doing the same thing. Most first person games (like Dishonored), don't have cover systems either.
What I'm saying is modern stealth has two states: either you're invisible, or eveyone knows where you are. Modern SC games have a cover system that lets you silently swoop between cover (so does the new Thi4f). Dishonored also has the lean system where you're invisible no matter what. It's easy mode for console babbies.

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"cinematic takedowns"
Again, like cover, this doesn't make a difference. Sneaking up behind a guy in like... Splinter Cell or whatever, and getting a really quick little animation of Sam choking the guy out isn't any different from walking up behind a guy in Thief with the club and clonking him on the back of the head.
Neither of those are cinematic takedowns. In modern stealth games you have a "Press x to do an awesome animation killing all your opponents". Sneaking up on a guy and grabbing him/bopping on the head in Thief or old SC requires patience and actual input.

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You should play Mark of the Ninja. Easily puts all other modern stealth games to shame.
Because modern stealth games are shit. Also has nothing to do with Thief

EDIT #1
Ah, you edited your post in the meantime. I'll agree with you on the zombies. It's one of the reasons that it's Thief 2 that is the perfect stealth game (not "action-stealth") and not Thief 1.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 05:07:53 am by Tanaj » Logged
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« Reply #8401 on: August 31, 2014, 08:13:23 am »

Been playing Skyrim recently, though I got The Walking Dead Season 2 recently on sale*- will probably start playing it sometime in the next day or so.

*I know I have no money right now, but 7.59 instead of 18.99 for a game I will be buying eventually anyway? I couldn't say no, especially as the housemate who owes me a lot of money just got a job.
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« Reply #8402 on: August 31, 2014, 12:46:25 pm »

*Stuff*

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The controls are fine if you're not a console peasant that can't comprehend more than 6 buttons. Sure, the speed system in SC was awesome, but it doesn't make or break the game. Thief was built around its control system and it works.
They're not gamebreaking, but they are annoying, take some getting used to, and probably could have been done better. Though I kinda rebound my keys to standard WASD, with shift to control speed, and Control to crouch, and that seems to be working fine. It seems having S set to be that slow walk isn't totally necessary.

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Maybe if you complained about the inventory system, then I could agree with you.
It's sort of the same inventory system as Duke Nukem 3D/Doom Source Ports, so I guess I'm used to it.

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(I guess that's why you Americans have "Food is hot" warning labels)
I'm Canadian.

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Also: "controllers are more precise". Buehehehehe.
Controllers are better for character movement, not aiming. With WASD, you only get 8 directions, and depending on the game, one or two speeds for your character to move in, with control sticks you get a lot more freedom of movement and speed over your character compared to a keyboard.

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Nowadays, retard gamers can't lose in a game, because they want to have "fun".
God forbid people want to have fun.

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That's why the new Metal Gear has slo-mo when somebody spots you.
To be fair, they did stick in options to disable all of the handholding slowmo stuff that makes Ground Zeroes/Phantom Pain easier.

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Dishonored also has the lean system where you're invisible no matter what.
In my experience with Thief so far, it's the same way, I've not been spotted when peeking around well lit corners.

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In modern stealth games you have a "Press x to do an awesome animation killing all your opponents".
The only modern stealth game I can think of that has that is Splinter Cell Blacklist.
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« Reply #8403 on: August 31, 2014, 02:28:30 pm »

They're not gamebreaking, but they are annoying, take some getting used to, and probably could have been done better. Though I kinda rebound my keys to standard WASD, with shift to control speed, and Control to crouch, and that seems to be working fine. It seems having S set to be that slow walk isn't totally necessary.
To each his own. Keys are indeed rebindable.

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I'm Canadian.
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Controllers are better for character movement, not aiming. With WASD, you only get 8 directions, and depending on the game, one or two speeds for your character to move in, with control sticks you get a lot more freedom of movement and speed over your character compared to a keyboard.
Depends on the game. And personal preference I guess.
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God forbid people want to have fun.
Look, if you're playing chess with me and when you're about to lose a piece you throw the whole thing to the ground and demand we start over. You may be having fun because you'll never lose, but that's not what chess is about. What I'm saying is I hate casualisation of games that used to require skill. So what if you're caught? You're a thief and if you get caught you're generally screwed (tbh even in Thief you aren't THAT screwed, unless you really fuck up). Reload a save and try again. But if you can whip out some bullshit slo-mo ninja stuff to get out of any trouble, then where's the challenge? I like to sometimes play on easy sometimes, maybe set a game up so that I can't lose. Winning IS fun, but I get more fun out of overcoming challenges by myself, not because the game did that for me.



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To be fair, they did stick in options to disable all of the handholding slowmo stuff that makes Ground Zeroes/Phantom Pain easier.
They did, but my point still stands.
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In my experience with Thief so far, it's the same way, I've not been spotted when peeking around well lit corners.
Weird, I remember guards being able to spot you like that.

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The only modern stealth game I can think of that has that is Splinter Cell Blacklist.
Off that top of my head: the new Hitman and Thi4f (it has bullshit pressure point karate, but the principle is the same). Dishonored also has easy-mode teleporting drop-kills.
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« Reply #8404 on: August 31, 2014, 02:58:25 pm »

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Depends on the game. And personal preference I guess.
It doesn't really matter in FPS for the most part, but stealth games I generally prefer controller if I have the option. It's easier to use a stick than to fiddle with a mouse wheel or various keys.

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Look, if you're playing chess with me and when you're about to lose a piece you throw the whole thing to the ground and demand we start over. You may be having fun because you'll never lose, but that's not what chess is about. What I'm saying is I hate casualisation of games that used to require skill. So what if you're caught? You're a thief and if you get caught you're generally screwed (tbh even in Thief you aren't THAT screwed, unless you really fuck up). Reload a save and try again. But if you can whip out some bullshit slo-mo ninja stuff to get out of any trouble, then where's the challenge? I like to sometimes play on easy sometimes, maybe set a game up so that I can't lose. Winning IS fun, but I get more fun out of overcoming challenges by myself, not because the game did that for me.
Fair enough.

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Off that top of my head: the new Hitman and Thi4f (it has bullshit pressure point karate, but the principle is the same). Dishonored also has easy-mode teleporting drop-kills.
Ah, I never played either of those. Never been a Hitman fan, and I heard mostly mixed things about Thi4f, so I avoided it.
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« Reply #8405 on: August 31, 2014, 03:29:39 pm »

It doesn't really matter in FPS for the most part, but stealth games I generally prefer controller if I have the option. It's easier to use a stick than to fiddle with a mouse wheel or various keys.

Matter of preference. I'm terrible with a pad in anything other than Tekken
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« Reply #8406 on: September 02, 2014, 02:37:21 am »

Well it finally happened. I've played Doom to the point that I'm just utterly bored of it now. I've dicked around with tons of different maps and gameplay mods, but nothing really does it for me anymore. That game was like crack to me.

At least now that I'm not so hooked on it I can focus on the one hundred thirty something games on my steam.

I've been playing Metro Redux on PS4, the improved visuals are just amazing.
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« Reply #8407 on: September 02, 2014, 03:55:39 pm »

Improved is an understatement. I don't even need to compare it to the previous one to know it's utterly  He love you long time worthy.

Mass Effect

It's good enough to shutdown The Walking Dead Season 1: 400 Days (And S2 by proxy) and TF2.
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« Reply #8408 on: September 02, 2014, 09:04:43 pm »

Finally finished The Walking Dead season 2.  I can't say I liked it as much as S1 but I suppose I knew going in that it was going to be a tough act to follow.  Season 3 will have to bring something very new to the table to keep my interest.
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« Reply #8409 on: September 03, 2014, 09:34:56 am »

Finally finished The Walking Dead season 2.  I can't say I liked it as much as S1 but I suppose I knew going in that it was going to be a tough act to follow.  Season 3 will have to bring something very new to the table to keep my interest.

Am I the only one tired of Telltale's games? I enjoyed S1 of TWD, but I wasn't terribly engaged in it. I didn't finish S2 because I just didn't care enough. I was exteremely invested in TWAU, for the first two episoeds I was on the edge of my seat. But then the writing shat itself inside out and, again, I didn't bother to play ep. 5. The more disillusioned I am with their games, the more faults I can see. The writing seems like they do it episode to episode, rather than having a coherent story written from start to finish. And the absolute lack of effort put into the presentation becomes more and more annoying. They're reusing assets left and right and they still can't be bothered to animate them properly (my favourite was some dude holding a gun where only the gun was animated and floated up and down in his hands).
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« Reply #8410 on: September 04, 2014, 06:04:21 am »

dude holding a gun where only the gun was animated and floated up and down in his hands).
IRL that would probably make me more scared than somebody "just" aiming a gun at me:D
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btw, Are the wings on fire?
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« Reply #8411 on: September 04, 2014, 09:59:56 am »

Hmm, I had noticed the frequent reuse of items. But meh, that's not a game breaker for me. I did notice someone firing a bolt action rifle on semiauto though, that was just silly. Doesn't detract much though, I still really enjoyed The Walking Dead.

My main complaint about Season 2 is that it just felt short. I could swear it's half the length of S1. Looking at my Steam account I see they're roughly the same S1 with 15 hours played (including 400 Days), S2 with 10. But still, it just felt like there wasn't much there when I was playing it.
Eh, could just be it left me wanting more.

Replaying State Of Decay for the billionth time at the moment. Assault rifles have got one hell of a lot more useful since the last expansion.
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« Reply #8412 on: September 04, 2014, 01:57:19 pm »

went splitsies on a Xbone with the brothergremlin

so now its just... so much forza.
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« Reply #8413 on: September 04, 2014, 11:17:09 pm »

Replaying State Of Decay for the billionth time at the moment. Assault rifles have got one hell of a lot more useful since the last expansion.

Have you played the Lifeline expansion? I rarely, if ever, used guns before I got Lifeline, but my experiences in Danforth have resulted in me always carrying one when scavenging.
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« Reply #8414 on: September 05, 2014, 06:25:52 am »

Have you played the Lifeline expansion? I rarely, if ever, used guns before I got Lifeline, but my experiences in Danforth have resulted in me always carrying one when scavenging.

I have lifeline but haven't played it yet but I always bring a fully loaded gun with me on any run though.  I've had a few encounters where things went from bad to worse and a firearm is the only thing that kept me alive. 

I really need to get back to playing this, I rage quit after an espescially bad session of Breakdown a few months ago and the taste of bile is still in my mouth whenever I think of starting over again.  I will one of these days though, the missing achievements will haunt me otherwise.
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