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Author Topic: What did we learn today? (Apart from that australian wine rocks.)  (Read 129405 times)
Log!
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« Reply #1710 on: February 11, 2011, 01:17:14 am »

It's not necessarily just pandering to parents, it's just trying to look good in general.
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At least, that's what I think.
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« Reply #1711 on: February 11, 2011, 03:30:42 am »

Log: I was about to answer that I didn't understand your answer, but then I just understood! US colleges are funded by daddy's money. Québec colleges are funded by tax money. Québec colleges have to convince the government that what they teach is useful and that the students do learn it. US colleges have to seduce daddy. That makes the difference in philosophy much more understandable, and at the same time much sadder.


while im aware that colleges private in the us, the realisation of the fact that colleges have to convince parents that they are good schools slipped my mind!
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« Reply #1712 on: February 11, 2011, 07:21:22 am »

I would really like to know what your sources are. Granted, I've only gone to a Cal Poly, and to a Community College, but I know people that have gone to other schools, and not just ones in California, and no public college that I know of panders to parents. Pandering to the government? Definitely. A lot of colleges is the US get their funding through grants from various government organizations (DoD and Department of Ag being the most notable).

That tuition fees amount to a sizable portion of colleges' funding (and therefore too expensive for students to pay themselves) in the US is part of that system's poor reputation; if it has been exagerated, then you're welcome to put it in perspective, but it would explain the current matter.
And he US is infamous for its voucher system, which does make schools dependent on popularity as absolutely as pure private funding and is a subject to horror and mockery for its favouring of religious and ideological slants that sacrifice education to flattering the parents' beliefs.
"We're going to sack you at the slighest transgression" is not very sexy to the students, nor does it contribute to a healthy learning atmosphere, but "we're going to keep your kids in line when you can't watch them directly so you never have to learn to trust them" is appealing to a different market...


Edit: Also, sorry about derailing the thread; something that didn't make sense to me suddenly does, and if it's actually false I'd rather know why rather than leave on a false conclusion.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 07:30:06 am by Dodom » Logged

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« Reply #1713 on: February 11, 2011, 07:44:13 am »

I'm a product of private schooling in the US and a parent of student.  I'm very fortunate that the township we live in has a very well regarded public school system that my tax money pays for, but I choose the additional expense of sending my son to a private school. 

The voucher system, in my opinion, is a great idea and wish it was more widespread in the US.  Letting parents choose where and how a child is educated is much better than letting the government decide.  Unfortunately it looked upon by many in the US as "unfair".  Just because the money is channeled through the families doesn't mean the families all have the same options because of location, schedules, etc.  The problem is where people draw the line on equality.  But I digress.

As for private schools catering to parents beliefs, sure they do, but they are also universally accepted as better institutions for learning than the publicly funded schools in the US.  A huge portion of their money coming from donations from alumni.  Most private colleges make more from alumni donations (or corporate donations) than from tuition.

lastly, as for schools enforcing rules one rule breakers and people that "know" about infractions.  The bottom line is, they don't want to get sued.  Litigation is way out of hand and if some students know about an infraction, don't report it, and someone doing the infractions gets injured (physically, emotionally, whatever) and sues, the school will be found at fault because they didn't know.  So punishing the non whislte blowers hopefully (from the schools perspective) encourages students policing eachother.

Sorry if I got up on a soapbox, just wading into the discussion fray.

TIL conflicting goals are very frustrating, but vodka in recyclable  metal bottles is not !
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« Reply #1714 on: February 11, 2011, 10:03:02 am »

TIL That making things turn into deadly fireballs in the science lab is fun!
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« Reply #1715 on: February 11, 2011, 04:06:38 pm »

Til more then i wanted about US schools.
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« Reply #1716 on: February 11, 2011, 07:26:06 pm »

Today I learned that my grandfather's heart medicine is also the main ingredient in rat poison. Medical science is weird!
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« Reply #1717 on: February 12, 2011, 12:06:59 am »

Coumadin?  The anti-coagulant properties make the rats bleed out. Or something in that nature.
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« Reply #1718 on: February 12, 2011, 03:11:51 am »

Today I Learned that SnorgTees advertisements are very... Distracting.
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« Reply #1719 on: February 12, 2011, 04:07:55 am »

I'm a product of private schooling in the US and a parent of student.  I'm very fortunate that the township we live in has a very well regarded public school system that my tax money pays for, but I choose the additional expense of sending my son to a private school.  

The voucher system, in my opinion, is a great idea and wish it was more widespread in the US.  Letting parents choose where and how a child is educated is much better than letting the government decide.  Unfortunately it looked upon by many in the US as "unfair".  Just because the money is channeled through the families doesn't mean the families all have the same options because of location, schedules, etc.  The problem is where people draw the line on equality.  But I digress.

As for private schools catering to parents beliefs, sure they do, but they are also universally accepted as better institutions for learning than the publicly funded schools in the US.  A huge portion of their money coming from donations from alumni.  Most private colleges make more from alumni donations (or corporate donations) than from tuition.

lastly, as for schools enforcing rules one rule breakers and people that "know" about infractions.  The bottom line is, they don't want to get sued.  Litigation is way out of hand and if some students know about an infraction, don't report it, and someone doing the infractions gets injured (physically, emotionally, whatever) and sues, the school will be found at fault because they didn't know.  So punishing the non whislte blowers hopefully (from the schools perspective) encourages students policing eachother.

Sorry if I got up on a soapbox, just wading into the discussion fray.

TIL conflicting goals are very frustrating, but vodka in recyclable  metal bottles is not !
Sorry, I thought we were talking about University level. If we're going to go into secondary schools, then that's an entirely different can of worms. I must say that thankfully, that atrocity known as the voucher system isn't wide-spread where I live. I'm a product of the California Public Education system, and proud of it. I've had a problem with private schools for years, and time has only increased my dislike of them. The voucher system, allows parents to take students from public schools that are perceived to be bad (note that how much a funding a school gets is based on their attendance. Take students away from a bad school, the funding dries up, and as a result the quality of education drops further), and put them in a school that is paid for by mommy and daddy. Well, and now by the government. The HS I graduated from is small, and always has been. The largest graduating class from that HS was 83 students. I had a graduating class of 15. That school has been on the verge of closing for years. It's only thanks to very inventive money expenditure that it's not. Now imagine if a bunch of parents were to use vouchers to take their kids to other schools (there's 1 public school in the town I live in, and 3 or 4 in the next town over, about 30min away). In large schools, the impact might not be that significant. In small schools, it is. And in school districts where funding is already a problem (which is most of them), even a large school district would feel the impact fairly quickly.

As for someone getting expelled from college for not turning in their roomates, I don't know what college that is. I have a hunch that the person getting expelled has other infractions on their record that we don't know about. Certainly I've never heard of a first offender getting expelled for not turning in their friends at any college in CA. I had friends that got caught at a dorm party in which there was underage drinking. One of my friends was drinking, but a couple weren't. The ones that were drinking got put on probation (basicly, if they were caught drinking again, they'd be expelled), while the ones that weren't drinking didn't get so much as a slap on the wrist. This was at Cal Poly Pomona (which is part of the CSU system). Heck, one of my roomates while I was there got caught smoking pot in the parking lot, and the school didn't take any action against him. He got the usual punishments for possession, but that's it.

Last bit (promise): Dodom, the 'bad rep' that US colleges have is actually rather funny to me. I just looked it up, and on 2 different "top 100 univiersities in the world" lists, nearly 1/2 the colleges listed are in the US. Granted, just under 1/2 of those are private, but even so, I don't see how you can claim that US colleges are any worse then colleges in other countries.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 04:19:11 am by Achilles » Logged
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« Reply #1720 on: February 12, 2011, 05:59:21 am »

i think that dodom was talking about "average" colleges. also about the fact that "top universities" lists are made using some weird assumptions...
not that im saying that these colleges shouldnt be there- usa is the richest country in the world, so their best colleges are bound to be very good.
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« Reply #1721 on: February 12, 2011, 06:41:17 am »

i think that dodom was talking about "average" colleges. also about the fact that "top universities" lists are made using some weird assumptions...
not that im saying that these colleges shouldnt be there- usa is the richest country in the world, so their best colleges are bound to be very good.
Even 'bad' colleges are still quite good, they just tend to be more focused.
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« Reply #1722 on: February 13, 2011, 06:48:09 pm »

Today I learned that isopropyl alcohol does not replace methanol as a drying agent.
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« Reply #1723 on: February 14, 2011, 02:41:51 pm »

i meant bad as in where people dont learn much.
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« Reply #1724 on: February 14, 2011, 11:40:00 pm »

TIL because of the "speed of light" and the vast distance between Earth and the stars, when we look at the closest stars (minus the Sun), we're actually seeing their light from about a million years ago. I kinda wish I had taken some astronomy classes in the last college I went to.
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